Jane Eyre Discussion
Jane Eyre
By: Charlotte Bronte
Post #1:
By: Charlotte Bronte
Post #1:
Bronte begins her tale of Jane Eyre’s life by immediately establishing the accepted opinion of the Reed family. The first few chapters really set the scene for Jane’s oppressed lifestyle. Bronte quickly dives into the plot which allows the mood to create for itself a chaotic gloom. Jane, the outcasted and orphaned cousin, is seen as worse off than a servant. It intrigues me that she would be hated by the servants as well because often in literature, the servants/nurses take particular interest in the outcasted child. The only character to even begin to sympathize with Jane is the apothecary. This is significant because he has the least amount of power to change her life, and yet he is the one she immediately feels safe around. Jane comments about her first encounter with the apothecary, saying, “I felt an inexpressible relief, a soothing conviction of protection and security, when I knew that there was a stranger in the room” (Bronte 18). Children are taught from a young age not to associate with strangers because strangers are potentially dangerous; however, in Jane’s case, the one person granting her a sense of safety was someone she did not know. This is a huge help in understanding the Reed family because, although there have been few encounters with the devil children and witch of a mother, the reader now knows that they are evil enough that Jane would rather be around a perfect stranger than be with the Reeds. Mrs. Reed’s decision for Jane has proven to be a peculiar one; it was selfish because she hates Jane, and yet it seems to be just what Jane needs: an escape from Mrs. Reed. Sending Jane to school seems a bit out of Mrs. Reed’s cruel character because it allows Jane freedom and fan escape. As the novel continues to unfold, the Lowood Institution will symbolize freedom for Jane, I suspect.
This novel is flooded with detailed descriptions of Jane’s surroundings. Do you think that Bronte fills the narration with these details in order to transport the reader to Jane’s world? Or could it be that Jane has been alone so long that her observation skills are very refined, so the excessive details show her own captivity in her mind?
To answer your question, I honestly think that the purpose of the detailed descriptions is actually both. By describing as in depth as she does, Bronte is not only able to immerse the reader into Jane's world, but by doing so she is elaborating on the loneliness that Jane feels being outcasted by her entire family. I feel that what Bronte is doing, is developing Jane's psychological status through the way that she describes settings and things around her. I also feel that the Red Room is a very important symbol to this novel, serving as a mental prison to Jane in the first couple of chapters-further developing her slightly unstable psychological state.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to make a note before I moved on to my section, on something that you said. I really liked that you pointed out that Jane isn't accepted by "the help" even though typically in novels they follow a pattern of accepting the outcast. I feel as if somehow this idea of Jane growing up being lower than the lowest will either lead to a spurt of growth or psychologically stump her even more so.
Moving on in the novel, Jane has been sent to a a school, Lowood- which is a charity school for girl orphans. She was sent away from her family, and begins to meet new people. Her superintendent (Ms. Temple) is quite nice to her, while Ms. Scatcherd is not. But what I found the most interesting was the fact that Jane made a friend! Helen Burns. I won't lie and say, that I didn't think that Jane was going to be able to open up and make friends, due to her bullying and pushing around from her family. Throughout her time at Lowood, Jane falls upon the bad side of Mr. Broklehurst, and is called out in front of the school for being a liar. However, at the end of the day, rather then finding out that the others girls believed Mr. Broklehurst, they rather felt bad for her and pitied her. Helen and Jane grow closer as friends, Helen even trying to share Christianity with Jane. As Jane begins to trust Ms. Temple and Helen more, she eventually shares with them the trifles that she had at her previous home. What baffles me the most with Jane here though, is how much she trusts these people after not knowing them for too long. I wouldn't suspect after all of the psychological trauma that she faced at her old home, for Jane to be willing to open up too these people, however I also understand that these are the first people after the apothecary to be kind and nice to her, but will this result in Jane opening up and trusting people simply because they are nice to her?
What hit me the most in this section was when Helen died. (Here comes a long quote but it is important so sorry not sorry.) As Helen lay dying, these were the words that she said to Jane, "I am very happy, Jane; and when you hear that I am dead, you must be sure and not grieve: there is nothing to grieve about. We all must dir one day, and the illness which is removing me is not painful; it is gentle and gradual: my mind is at rest. I leave no one to regret me much: I have only a father ; and he is lately married, and will not miss me. By dying young, I shall escape great sufferings. I had not qualities or talents to make my way very well in the world: I should have been continually at fault" (Bronte 97). This is a big moment for Jane. Her first and best friend is dying and leaving her behind, yet she says to not be sad for she (Helen) is escaping the world before it can hurt her too badly. How can she say that when she was sent to a charity orphan home when she did have a father? I believe that Helen stands for love and forgiveness, which is something that Jane needed to be introduced to, before making her way in life. Then by taking Helen away, Jane is able to begin to reciprocate those same attributes towards others in memory and respect of Helen.
DeleteAt the end of this section we see Jane out of Lowood house having an interesting conversation with Bessie about scandals and foiled plans. But after Bessie leaves, Jane is left alone at Thornfield to start a new life. What will happen next?
Well! This next section of Jane Eyre has been one rollercoaster of emotions and plot!! So let’s dive right into the action. From the moment Jane arrived at Thornfield, there was something special about her encounters with the people there. She writes, “I felt rather confused at being the object of more attention than I had ever before received, and, that too, shown by my employer and superior; but as she did not herself seem to consider she was doing anything out of her place, I thought it better to take her civilities quietly” (Bronte 135-36). Jane is immediately met with a kindness and love that she has never known; Mrs. Fairfax takes her under her wing as she becomes accustomed with Thornfield, showing Jane a sort of motherly love. It is striking too, because Mrs. Fairfax is technically her boss, and yet she still loves Jane from the beginning. I think it would be a good time to mention what you said in your post, Julia, about Jane being able to now reciprocate the love that Helen showed her; we see that in her interactions with Adele. Jane writes, “I felt a scientious solicitude for Adele’s welfare and progress, and a quiet liking for her little self” (Bronte 154). Because of the kindness that Helen showed her, Jane is then able to gently love Adele. Moving on to the topic of gender roles, Bronte has a lot to say about those in this section. Jane begins this discussion by saying, “women are supposed to be very calm generally: but women feelf just as men feel; they need exercise for their faculties, and a field for their efforts, as much as their brothers do; they suffer from too rigid a restraint, too absolute a stagnation precisely as men would suffer; and it is narrow-minded in their more privileged fellow-creatures to say that they ought to confine themselves making puddings and knitting stockings, to playing on the piano and embroidering bags” (Bronte 155). This giant quote perfectly defines the way that Jane approaches her womanhood; she is woman of action, and Bronte is making a statement in this Victorian era, blatenly saying that women are capable of so much more than keeping house. I think this idea of capable women is very much built off of as Mr. Rochester enters the picture. Oh man that is quite the budding relationship! However strict and abrupt he may be, Jane does not change her sharp personality to please him. I love that Bronte had already established Jane’s strong personality, so that it was natural for her to stand up to Mr. Rochester when he arrives on the scene. At first, this relationship honestly resembles that of Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy in Pride and Prejudice: stubbornness and resentment are the two words I would use to describe the first impressions between Jane and Rochester. However, it is evident that Rochester’s opinion of her changes in a matter of the eight weeks he begins to spend at Thornfield. (8 weeks longer than any of his other visits mind you!!!) He takes a liking to Jane, and Jane blatantly tells the reader that she takes a liking to him: “and was Mr. Rochester now ugly in my eyes? No, reader: gratitude, and many associations, all pleasurable and genial, made his face the object I best like to see; his presence in a room was more cheering than the brightest fire” (Bronte 210). This budding relationship will no doubt be the subject of the chats to follow. However, I do think that because they are both proud and stubborn, Bronte will not force them to reveal their feelings too soon.
ReplyDeleteOkay two questions, Jules: 1) what is your opinion of Mr. Rochester? Do you like him or are you not a fan? And 2) Do you think Bronte will use Adele at all to unite Jane and Rochester further? Or will Jane be used to unite Rochester and Adele?! AH! Let me know what you think!!
Hey Reebs!
DeleteOk let's get down to business (to defeat the huns... just a little Disney joke to start off the post). But seriously. I really like the connection that you make between Darcy and Elizabeth to Jane and Rochester. It's a great parallel between the two novels and I like how both sets of characters can be seen through each other. I do like Rochester, to answer your question. He kinda irks me in some ways like Darcy does, but due to his actions towards Jane, I have also grown to like the man. To answer your second question, I think that Adele is a simple fling in a sense that she will mean nothing to Rochester, so in the end she will be "used" to being Jane and Rochester closer together for the final result.
Now, I've got to cover some juicy stuff so let's begin! So Rochester has been away from the house for quite some time now, with some talk that he may be gone for even a year! (What is he thinking? Bro come back to your beau!) However, all of that is dismantled by the fact that he returns home three days later with a group of aristocratic party members. Although she is forced to stay what stands out to me the most is the fact that she isolates herself from the crowd, "I was pondering these things, when an incident, and a somewhat unexpected one, broke through the thread of my musings" (Bronte 222). I feel as if this reflects back to her days as a child in her family home, and how that trauma still stays with her even into adulthood. This shows that she will never be able to totally overcome this problem that has stayed with her, but with the right amount of love in her life that trauma won't be a problem in her life anymore (maybe?).
Ok now let us move onto Blanche. This girl... I cannot stand her and her motives as a rich socialite who just wants to marry Rochester for his money! I mean I'm pretty sure that all the girls were doing that in this day in age, but with the presence of Jane it is extremely unacceptable! I hope that Blanche marries a man who doesn't love her and only wants her as arm candy so that she can be unhappy and miserable forever. After moving on from the whole Blanche situation, we meet a secretive gypsy. So spoiler, its Rochester, but why? Although the gypsy puts Blanche in her place and saying that she wasn't as rich as Rochester was (lol booyahhh!). But what made me so happy was what the gypsy said to Jane, "Chance has meted you a measure of happiness: that I know" (Bronte 232). So by knowing that it is Rochester, what does that entail for Jane? He says "that I know", so does that mean that he will be bringing her happiness? What do you think Reebs?
Moving on from that for our last tidbit of importance, after being in the ordeal of Mr.Mason being stabbed and Jane stanching it then a surgeon dealing with the situation, Jane and Rochester find themselves strolling in the orchard. Rochester begins to then tell a "hypothetical story" to Jane about a man who commits capital error in a different country, but who also wants to redeem himself and live a new a redeemed life with a wife and family. So, I don't think that its hypothetical at all, and that Rochester did commit capital error. But what I find interesting is the fact that Rochester opens up to Jane in this way, showing that he does care for her, even if he doesn't completely tell her that it was him. What is interesting though, is that after Jane tells him that this man should repent to the Lord and confess his sins-Rochester naturally abruptly leaves (to repent). So why do you think that Rochester committed capital error? What do you think?
Tag your it!
To answer your question, I think Mr. Rochester is a very different man than he was before. I think that travelling all over the world, on his own schedule, definitely brought out the worst in him. So I guess I don’t really have a good answer for your question, other than it was a mistake. And if there’s anyone who can look past those mistakes and love him anyway, it’s Jane Eyre.
ReplyDeleteJane’s two lives collide in this next section, showing just how much Jane has grown as a person, physically, psychologically, and emotionally. When Jane Eyre left Gateshead as a 10-year-old, she was scared, unconfident, and naïve. But upon her return, the reader is reassured that Jane has gained much self confidence as a result of her time at Thornfield, and that she no longer views herself as a burden and much more of an equal to her odd cousins. It is evident that Jane’s life now rests in Thornfield because she writes, “I gazed upon it [Mrs. Reed’s corpse] with gloom and pain: nothing soft, nothing sweet, nothing pitying, or hopeful, or subduing did it inspire; only a grating anguish for her woes—not my loss—and a somber tearless dismay at the fearfulness of death in such a form” (Bronte 345). Gateshead no only offers any kind of emotion for Jane ot tap into, and thus she heads back home, to Thornfield. Honestly, I think the main thing we need to address in this section is the fact THAT MR. ROCHESTER AND JANE ARE NOW ENGAGED! That honestly struck me by surprise that Bronte would allow it such a quick turn around between Jane coming back to Thornfield and Mr. Rochester proposing. The tension that overwhelms their relationship is very typical of both their personalities. Jane writes, “Never had he called me more frequently to his presence, never been kinder to me when there—alas! Never had I loved him so well” (Bronte 355). How typical of Jane to not realize her true feelings until it seems too late. However, Bronte throws an expected curveball into the situation: Rochester wants to marry Jane, not the proud Blanche. Rochester is very smart, and proves this with his elaborate scheme intended to win Jane’s heart. He admits, “‘Well I feigned courtship of Miss Ingram, because I wished to render you as madly in love with me as I was with you; and I knew jealousy would be the best ally I could call in for the furtherance of that end’” (Bronte 379). Rochester’s plan works because Jane was tormented by his affection toward Blanche Ingram. I think Bronte makes a bold statement about love and marriage with Jane and Edward’s relationship. **Also can we just acknowledge that all the best dudes in Victorian novels are named Edward.** Bronte is claiming that love conquers all odds; the difference in age, status, personality, and many other attributes has no bearing on the fact that they will get married. Society rules a lot of things, but Bronte believes that marriage is one thing that society can no longer rule. Needless to say, there is a lot of novel left, and there will be a lot of drama I am sure with this relationship.
Here's something that I've been wondering, how do you feel about Jane still calling Edward “master”? I feel like its odd, because she claims to love Mr. Rochester. Let me know your thoughts on the authoritative awkwardness…
That does kinda irk me in a way. I don't really like that she still says that, but it is apart of the times? Either way, I don't like that she still calls him that, considering that they are engaged and almost on a equal standard when it comes to being in a relationship.
DeleteYou were right! There is a lot of drama in this novel still to come! Can we talk about the fact that Rochester is married to another woman, and was going to marry Jane knowing this?? Boy what was he thinking? I mean this ship was almost as good as Darcy and Elizabeth, but now I'm not too sure. I was falling in love with Rochester myself but now I don't think that he is the best fit for Jane. I mean I understand that he is now in love with Jane, and he clearly wants to move on in his life with the inclusion of Jane, but it is concerning that he would move on without taking care of this huge situation in his life. What do you think is ran through Jane's head at this moment?
I am going to make an extremely bold statement and say that chapter 27 is one of if not the most important and impactful chapter of the entire novel. Jane begins by doubting herself and her choices (which I believe is a perfect reaction to what has just happened to her). She plans on running away from Thornfield which like I said earlier, is a rational idea to have. However, she is caught by Rochester and faints, then asked to stay so that he can explain. He starts off his spiel with, "Jane, I never meant to wound you thus" (Bronte 344). This tears me in two. I understand that he loves her and wants to marry her and spend the rest of his life with her, but he does have a past that his haunting him, and he tried to hide that from her-plus he obviously did not want to share this with her. Yet, his past came back to bite him, and now he decided to tell her his past.
After Rochester spills his guts, Jane bolts (after kissing his cheek and blessing him). She is heart broken and confused on how to follow her heart. She runs for a while, but she runs out of money and ends up sleeping outside. She prays and begs for food for a couple of days. This road leads her to meeting Mary, Diana, and Hannah. A friendship is formed between all of these women, as well as with St. John. By meeting St. John, Jane (not introducing herself as Jane Eyre) eventually picks up a job at a charity school for girls. I find it very curious that Jane finds herself back at a charity house, yet she doesn't shy away from the house. It shows a growth within Jane, showing that she is not the scared little girl that she was when she entered the first charity house, rather she has become stronger, and is actually finding herself while at the house.
Do you think that Rochester will come after Jane? Do you think that he will deal with his past in order to have Jane in his future?
I don’t think that Rochester really has a choice in letting go of his past; he is much too deep in love with Jane. However, because of his status in society and the disgrace he has already caused, I don’t think he will come after Jane. But those last few chapters were definitely not the end of their relationship.
ReplyDeleteHonestly this section frustrated me quite a bit, because I felt that Jane lost a part of herself in some way, as the section progressed. I think the biggest change for Jane is that her work no longer excites her, and she is constantly hoping for her old life back. St. John also works as a confirmation of that idea; with every encounter with him, Jane wishes she was with Mr. Rochester. Although she does become accustomed to life in Morton, it is obvious she does not consider it her home. Jane writes, “He [Rochester] did love me—no one will ever love me so again. I shall never more know the sweet homage given to beauty, youth, and grace—for never to any one else shall I seem to possess these charms. He was fond and proud of me—it is what no man besides will ever be” (Bronte 520-21). Jane’s life seemed to end the moment she walked out of Thornfield. She was so tightly bound to her life there and to Mr. Rochester, that his absence in her life causes her to feel empty and hollow. St. John’s presence, though exciting because she finds out they are cousins, only worsens the problem. He is so intent on marrying her (which can we all just throw up for a moment. Ew.) which causes some serious strife. I think that becomes the last straw for Jane as far as thinking about her love life. She finally realizes that unless she gets over Mr. Rochester, or goes back to him, the only love she will have is from her freak of a cousin. Dreams have proven to be a big deal in this book, and I don’t think this section would be complete without discussing her dreams about Mr. Rochester. Jane recalls, “dreams many-colored, agitated, full of the ideal, the stirring, the stormy—dreams where, amidst unusual scenes, charged with adventure, with agitating risk and romantic chance, I still again and again met Mr. Rochester, always at some exciting crisis; and then the sense of being in his arms, hearing his voice, meeting his eye, touching his hand and cheek, loving him, being loved by him” (Bronte 531-32). Jane’s longing for Mr. Rochester is evident in the fact that she dreams about him all the time. He is a part of her, whether she will admit it or not; she needs him. Bronte uses these dream sequences to express Jane’s true feelings; sometimes the unconscious says more than the conscious will ever begin to.
Here’s my question: Jane obviously longs for Mr. Rochester. Will she let down her pride and heart break to give him another chance? Should she even give him another chance, or should she just move on? Let me know what you’re thinking!!
I think that Jane should let down her pride and heartbreak to be with Rochester, because she clearly is in love with him and vice versa. I mean the signs are all there that she is obsessed with this man (in a healthy, normal sense) and she longs to be with him! I am torn on your second part of the question however. I think that she should give him a second chance, but I also think that she should be very cautious with him due to the huge secret that he was keeping from her.
DeleteJane's infatuation with Rochester is clearly seen as we dive right into this last section, with her fleeing to Thornfield after having a bad dream. However she is shocked to hear about a fire at Thornfield that not only took the life of the wife or Rochester (fist bumps the air cuz the ship is sailing again) but also took Rochesters hand and some of his sight after he saved his servants. What I love though about Jane, is that when she steps in to see Rochester, she does not judge his appearance, which has been greatly impacted by the fire no doubt, saying rather, "A soft hope blent with my sorrow that soon I should dare drop a kiss on that brow of rock, and on those lips so sternly sealed beneath it; but not yet" (Bronte 498). I just love so much that her first reaction is to go show affection to him and love him with all of her heart-which leads me to question why she didn't leave St. John's sooner? But then I am reminded that he was a married man and that his wife only recently died because of the fire. I will say that I admire Jane for doing the right thing in that moment. She could have stayed, and I think that everyone wanted her too, but she would have never been the wife of Rochester like she wanted and she would have never been a "socially accepted character" in society because she would have just been considered a mistress to Rochester-so good for her!
I think that my favorite part of this section happens when Rochester finally sees that it is Jane in his room visiting him, "My living darling! These are certainly her limbs, and these her features; but I cannot be so blest, after all my misery. It is a dream, such dreams, as I have ever had at night when I have clasped her once more to my heart, as I do know; and kissed her as thus-and felt that she loved me, and trusted me that she would never leave me" (Bronte 501). She then says that she will never leave him and my heart just melts. I am so happy that after the entire novel they got together and were happy and in love.
The two love birds then get married and Jane reveals that this sooty has all been told ten years after it occurred. I find it quite satisfying that Jane is the now who wrote this, because it reflects how much she has grown as a character within the novel, to be able to reflect her account to readers and give them advice along her journey for us to follow.
I really loved this novel and the story that it entailed. I so appreciate the fact that it is not a cookie cutter story that Bronte could have used, rather it was a story of growth for a woman throughout her life, and it showed a woman being strong in times of weakness. I'm not saying that I am a feminist or that this book is a reflection of that, I am simply saying that Jane is an extremely strong character for the time that she was written in, and reading it made me appreciate that and what Bronte did.
We did it Reebs!!! Thanks for being my partner through all of this, I am so sorry for my crazy schedule! Also, a huge thanks to Mrs. Disher who will eventually read this-thank you so much for the time extension!! I appreciate it so much thank you!
Haha. I did read it "eventually" and enjoyed your voyage through the ins and outs of these two hearts! A note on "feminism"--it's only a negative term if it's taken to mean women grasping for things they don't deserve. In this case, I don't think we can call Bronte's message anything other than feminist, especially when Jane so specifically points out that women need productive employment too and when she refuses to be united to Rochester on anything less than an equal footing. Nice reading, ladies.
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